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Rising Star
lemme play this out...
“black women are too big of a majority in the us”
“asian women are the largest group of women in the world”
“latinx women are too diverse to know who they are”
“that’s such a standard disability...”
how about we stop gatekeeping diversity allies and contributors and instead encourage them to partner and enable others?
This is not a general statement but lately I’ve seen a lot of people (white people who I even consider friends) say that they want to be a better ally. When the opportunity comes for them to be an ally they say it’s too hard (I don’t have the time to read, if I say something I lose my job, etc). A lot of people still don’t want to take an intersectional approach to feminism so women of color are left out of the conversation for advancement.
No one is telling people to give up anything for free (obviously if a person isn’t qualified don’t hire them) but allies should really put in the effort if the want to be allies. Think of all the effort people of color put in when they code switch on a daily basis just to exist in white spaces. Think of all the times two employees do the same amount of work but one is paid more just because of their race.
I do support all women but have realized that not all of them support me because I don’t look like them. I’m not generalizing I’m just speaking from experience and please don’t ask me to give examples, if others don’t have to justify their experiences, why should I?
Pro
can we please not tear down other women in the name of wanting more diversity? Can it not be “YES AND”? Are we already over the fact that women, especially in the roles of creative leadership are drastically underrepresented? Yes WOC are even less so. But this isn’t an either or prospect here. The enemy is not woman who have finally made it. The enemy is the system that made it our expectation that we had to choose between KINDS OF WOMEN. And view them as obstacles along the way.
So, it's a competition? Can't we all just agree that everybody struggles, and we should make an effort to give each other a break? Help when you can, etc. Or you just want to be mad. Is that really serving anybody?
I support all women. System of white supremacy that supports white men also supports white women. Unless we recognize that the system that supports white men only supports white women will we get anywhere. A win for one women isn’t a win for all women unless that women supports all women and promises to create spaces for more women and bring other women with her. Lots of women tend to be “ladder kickers.” They have made it to the top but prevent other women from doing so
Pro
Sd what sources do you have on her being a ladder kicker
Inclusion through exclusivity. Bold.
Bitter and overly sensitive white person is that you?
Do you know that these privileged women have rich parents? Or do they seem privileged because they’ve been in high paying jobs long enough to lose touch or appear otherwise? Or maybe their partner makes a good living.
Most of the women leaders I know are not from “trust funds” but have worked their asses off to have what they have. And if you didn’t know them, maybe they come across as privileged.
@mindshare I was simply asking a question. OP made an enormous generalization so I’m curious about their experience.
Statements like “We support women and POC” or “We’re pledging X amount of $ to women and minorities” in the advertising world somehow always translates to 90% of the support, help, hiring, contracts and promotions going to white women, and the remaining crumbs going to POC.
Until people start asking to look at hiring records and expenditures and contracts for POC separate from women, holding companies in particular will continue counting “women and minorities” as one combined group and pray no one digs any deeper to reveal that massive disproportion.
That’s my professional experience talking. Data however also backs it up beyond advertising.
https://time.com/4884132/affirmative-action-civil-rights-white-women/
Bill Burr, is that you?
“You don’t know what it’s like to be me in my SUV with heated seats”
Count how many white women are in your agency. Then, count how many non-white people of any gender are in your agency. There will be more white women than all non-white races and ethnicities combined.
Have you truly considered the population breakdown? Agencies should go by the stats of the city they are located in.
I’ll generalize and put the stats of all the near–4 million square miles of the entire country. And my source, again, is the United States Census: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219
6% Asian
13% Black
18% Hispanic & Latino
60% White non-Hispanic or Latino
The remainder is split between other ethnicities, races and mixed backgrounds.
For gender, the United States is 50.8% female.
Agencies are so out of whack, they don’t even match up with the entire US, let alone their host cities. Here are some agency stats from that Digiday link from an earlier comment:
- 72 & Sunny is 58% female (they said their chart was wrong and had since posted that correction of 58). 67% white, they lumped everyone else together as “POC.”
- Ecotone Partners is 42% female. 100% white, 0% everyone else. (Their chart seems to show only 7 employees work at this agency.)
- Giant Spoon is 59% female. 13% Asian, 11% Black, 5% Hispanic or Latino, 63% white.
- Martin Agency is 62% female. 4% Asian, 9% Black, 4% Hispanic or Latino, 78% white.
- Wieden + Kennedy Portland is 54% female. 8% Asian, 9% Black, 7% Hispanic or Latino, 69% white. Their New York office is 57% female. 9% Asian, 11% Black, 9% Hispanic or Latino, 58% white.
For VP and above roles, the stats skew noticeably white and male for most agencies except for Camp + King, which has 15% Asian generally but 33% Asian as VP+, and 50% women with 60% VP+. Black and Hispanic/Latino representation at VP or higher levels is in the very low single digits across most US agencies.
Rising Star
This was Bill Burr’s monologue on SNL recently, no?
Rising Star
Again a lazy generalization: “we don’t get the benefit...” Some do. Some don’t. And it sucks like hell when you don’t. I know I’ll never feel that in the way you do. I hope every racist goes away. I do. But you’ll get nowhere making a generalization about 100% of white people when you don’t want people making a generalization about 100% of Black people.
I AM sick of mediocre, highly privileged people hijacking the diversity debate, but to me it seems like they’re usually white men. My agency’s all-white-ELT’s response was to hire a new D&I person, ban the words “blacklist” and “whitelist,” and make everyone take a LinkedIn training on not being racist. A lazy, mediocre, privileged way of saying “look, we’re good, right?”
But maybe the problem at its core is that privilege both stems from and leads to more mediocrity at the top. Because knowing the right people and acting like you belong with the right people is more important than being good at what you do. And if you get to the top, are you really going to be the kind of person who looks inside and says “I’m not actually good enough for this?” Or are you going to say “Holy shit, look at me, I’m amazing!” And continue to validate that, including with the people that fit well with you? To me, that feels like a big part of systemic racism. Even if the people in leadership roles now aren’t overtly racist, they got their highly competitive positions in a relationship-based industry based on their... relationships. Not talent. Which puts Black people especially at a major disadvantage in a mostly White industry.
But to take the blame of mediocre diversity hijacking and put it squarely on the shoulders one of the many marginalized groups (women) feels unfair at best.
I also am highly enraged but to me it's not white women, or white men. It's Crab People!!!
Coming in here with their Crab People legs. And their claws. And their stupid Crab People song!
It's the epitome of privilege. All high and mighty with their exoskeletons and sweet, briny meat.
You think just because you're a Crab Person you're better than us???
We have to be careful about this “lack of talent” narrative. Folks are quick to say about black people and latinos. Talent is subjective. You either add value in your deals with the companies you work for or you don’t. Always be able to quantity that value, and fuck anyone’s opinion on if it’s good or not. There is so much shitty work out there.
Chief
WHITE MAN 1: Check this out. It’s totally working.
Going for a run now. I’m not the OP but I’m sorry this post caused issues. Wishing everyone a great weekend. Also vote for a better society for equality
You know what’s a great way to tear down a movement from the inside? Turn its members against each other. This is how they win.
Ah, Mindshare 1! I was wondering when you were going to show up! Honestly just grateful you called me something other than “Gucci-booted” like you’ve been doing on every other post. Your post makes quite a few incorrect assumptions about me so I’m not going to bother addressing it. Thanks for playing!
Mindshare is giving it to you straight with no chaser....but she isn’t telling lies.... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/black-suffragists-19th-amendment
Not true...lots of jokes re comments
I had a highly awarded white female creative tell me “Let the white women get what we want, and then black women can have their turn.”
@Lead Design Strat 1 no. Way. Literally. nNnnnnnooo way.
Basic math. There is no shortage of women in the industry. I don’t have the number handy but it’s close to balance and in some agencies tips female (believe media/pr). The issue with White women is getting promoted to leadership roles. Black women (and Hispanic women) face challenges with representation (being hired in the first place) and getting promoted. The data exists.
CD3, to be frank, you’re being unnecessarily mean and dismissive. Strat 1 made a valid point.
Blue collar?
Tell me more
What’s the context?
Please elaborate!